Why I Hate Poetry
74
Notes On Poetry...The Hating Of It, Jack Gilbert, Gordon Lish, Genesis West, Dr. Seuss, Poles, German Tanks, Horses, and Yertle the Turtle
These two old guys drove twelve miles into town to attend a special poetry reading, hoping to eventually read publicly a few of their own poems in the ordered process of each signing into the listed queue holding court on the official table of the local coffee house. These two gray-haired gentlemen suffered through the reading of the chief poet, the headliner, the star, who had earlier sashayed into the coffee house wearing his poet's garb, looking indeed like the great poet he claimed to his university students to be because he had published books and because, in the course of things, his peers themselves also said he was certainly a great poet.
He was there to be seen as the great poet he believed he was and to premiere new poems about his cat. On and on he droned in sentences so boring it was hard to tell anymore what the old men had come to and where they were going. And then he was done. Finished. And off he went, this handsome poet in his great coat and hat, out the same door he came in, not stopping to listen to any of the waiting novice or amateur readers still waiting to come, some of them surely his current students, but the important poet had other more pressing things to attend to. The eager readers then shuffled up to the same podium one by one until finally, seemingly hours later, the old friends cried uncle and put their own poems away.
FLOWER BY TIGHTENING (for Jack Gilbert)
I hate poetry simply because of all the poor poetry that stands with
others of their ilk as good poetry which in fact is not. And all the
bad poets praise each others work and more bad work is propagated
because of it. Some of the propagators are teachers, or become
teachers, and on and on it goes. When the teacher gets to a kid like me
(of course that was many years ago) and tells me how great something
being taught is that I inherently already know isn't, it makes a kid
like me not trust adults beginning at a very early age. It is sort of
like religion being taught to an atheist as something real and factual.
It just doesn't hold water. But when one comes upon a great poem read
correctly you know it in every fiber of your being, teacher or not. The
body knows. Something happens to you physically. Sometimes that type of
reading has to be taught. You have to be taught how to read a poem. But
you can't teach a bad poem to anyone but a poor reader or a terribly
bad listener. All you can do is teach your morals, politics, or gender
issues and hope for some sentimental support for what you are saying.
Why not instead have an experience unexampled in its feeling? Something
novel, new, fascinating, and even a bit disruptive.
From Genesis West, number one
Interview With Jack Gilbert, conducted by Gordon Lish
Poetry Is The Art Of Prejudice
page 86:
Jack Gilbert- "...But usually my poems are caused by an impulse to
communicate some part of my life rather than to please. I don't want
the reader to finish the poem and say how lovely it was. I want him to
be disturbed. Even miserable."
page 88:
Gordon Lish- "Do you think people who are involved in poetry to further
their careers or who make mild poems out of trivial material are
dangerous to the reader?"
Jack Gilbert- "Mostly in being dangerous to themselves and other poets
--- in that they reduce poetry to something toilet-trained and
comfortable...Poetry is almost the only way we can escape from the vicious
constipation of moral relativism. Because poetry is the art of
prejudice. If prejudice is the inability to discuss a conviction
calmly, then poetry is prejudice...(Poetry) doesn't argue, it
demonstrates...Poetry isn't fair...Poetry is one-sided, and being
one-sided, it can say what truth is."
I think it is a shame to search here through the available articles about poetry and the writing of it and have to sift through the drivel most of us call good. But I am not in the crowd of "most of us". It's bad, people. And the conversations about them are bad. It seems to me to always be a community of like-minded slap-happy citizens who like crappy poetry and the crappy writing of it. Well I don't. I am insulted by the work and I think it adds more fuel to the fires that maintain poetry is boring and even stupid. I will go on the record here saying I think ninety-nine point nine percent of it all is crap.
From 19 New American Poets Of The Golden Gate
(Jack Gilbert speaking on believing a poem or not) page 6
"...A lot of Elytis and the others feels like lazy language-mongering. A pretend-surrealism with no need behind it. The Mediterranean delight in the dance of the mind over a subject without trying to get anywhere. The subject being merely an occasion for the performance. Like poets giving birth without getting pregnant."
Hey, but wait. First off I want to say that there are some excellent poets and poems available for us to read, listen to, and enjoy. Just not here. I will positively present examples of some of these brilliant pieces of work if you stay with me. But there are far too many crappy ones out there, full of sentimentality and sap, eager to spread their morals, beliefs, and politics to the eyes and ears of the innocent. My guess is that most of the poems written and published would have been better left to the scrap heap called our waste basket. I will not make examples of these bad poems because, as elementary teachers generally say, I am trying to make lemonade.
From 19 New American Poets Of The Golden Gate
(Jack Gilbert speaking on less being more) page 7
"...One of the special pleasures in poetry for me is accomplishing a lot with the least means possible...and a pleasure in the scantness of means...the use of a few words with utmost effect."
Please, please, please, there are far too many poorly written poems in the world for one man to bear. That is why we have schools from which to spread more bad poems and the writing of them. Teachers throughout history have taught the same old stuff, boring the hell out of most young minds, and sealing the fate of a vast majority of students never to have seen or heard a very good poem. I know I didn't. Of course, there was Shakespeare's words available to us all to use as he did, but with no teacher capable of explaining anything meaningful about his work the typical student could not gain much of anything from his poems except perhaps a headache. Am I being too hard on teachers? I think not. Perhaps there was the random teacher who cared so much for the words that the teaching was meaningful. I never met one until much later in life. Gordon Lish was the first person to ever get so excited over teaching a poem that he infected me too with all his invigorating talk of making history. I would suppose Harold Bloom over there at Yale could get pretty excited as well, not to mention most likely Frank Lentricchia holding his own at Duke. Those three are serious scholars. But I never had Bloom or Lentricchia for teachers. Just that tyrant Lish who gets all the controversial press now for making Raymond Carver a big star.
Review of Gilbert's book, REFUSING HEAVEN
- Jack Gilbert\'s Refusing Heaven. - By Meghan O\'Rourke - Slate Magazine
In 1962, a young poet named Jack Gilbert won the Yale Series of Younger Poets award for his first book, Views of Jeopardy. He was not only talented but handsome, in a slight, romantic sort of way, and Vogue and Glamour fted him with photo spreads. Ac
Related Books, Gilbert, Lish, Sarki
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Jack Gilbert's Great Poem
The Abnormal Is Not Courage
The Poles rode out from Warsaw against the German
Tanks on horses. Rode knowing, in sunlight, with sabers,
A magnitude of beauty that allows me no peace.
And yet this poem would lessen that day. Question
The bravery. Say it's not courage. Call it a passion.
Would say courage isn't that. Not at its best.
It was impossible, and with form. They rode in sunlight,
Were mangled. But I say courage is not the abnormal.
Not the marvelous act. Not Macbeth with fine speeches.
The worthless can manage in public, or for the moment.
It is too near the whore's heart: the bounty of impulse,
And the failure to sustain even small kindness.
Not the marvelous act, but the evident conclusion of being.
Not strangeness, but a leap forward of the same quality.
Accomplishment. The even loyalty. But fresh.
Not the Prodigal Son, nor Faustus. But Penelope.
The thing steady and clear. Then the crescendo.
The real form. The culmination. And the exceeding.
Not the surprise. The amazed understanding. The marriage,
Not the month's rapture. Not the exception. The beauty
That is of many days. Steady and clear.
It is the normal excellence, of long accomplishment.
The Story Behind The Polish Cavalry
The Poles rode out against the German tanks on horses
I found the following piece online and do not know who to credit it to, but clearly somebody is not telling the truth, or it has been enlarged, twisted, and made mythical. Nonetheless, there is a history behind the gallant Poles of which Jack Gilbert wrote so masterly about in his poem The Abnormal Is Not Courage.
"The headline of this post is one of the greatest and most enduring
myths of World War II. Despite a complete lack of evidence to verify
it, the notion keeps coming back: that on some unnamed battlefield, on
some imprecise date, some unidentified unit of Polish
cavalry–presumably with lances lowered–decided to have a go at some
German Panzers.
Like a lot of the mythology of the war, this one has come under attack
by scholars and specialists for a long time now. As far back as 1991,
Steven Zaloga and Victor Madej wrote a good book called The Polish
Campaign that, to my mind, should have demolished the myth once and for
all. They discuss a charge by the Polish 18th Lancer Regiment (part of
the Pomorska Cavalry Brigade) against a weak German infantry position
near the town of Krojanty in Pomerania on the first day of the
invasion. Initially successful in dispersing the Germans, the 18th
Lancers later came to grief when several German armored cars happened
on the scene and opened up with their machine guns and light cannon.
The regimental commander, Colonel Kazimierz Mastelarz, was killed in
the incident. This “skirmish at Krojanty,” described in sensationalist
terms by journalists like William Shirer, is almost certainly the
source material for the fanciful tale of Polish cavalry charging tanks.
We might also add that at times during the campaign, as Polish mounted
units sought to evade or escape encirclement, they may indeed have
encountered German Panzers. But that’s a long way from “charging” them. Such myth-busting has hardly seemed to matter, unfortunately. The story
continues to have legs, as anyone who has ever taught a course on World
War II can testify. Forget how improbable it is, even ridiculous. It’s
almost as if we want it to be true, perhaps as an illustration of the
power of the new German “Blitzkrieg,” perhaps as proof of the central
role that technology plays in modern warfare, perhaps simply as a
tribute to doomed heroism. German General Heinz Guderian included the
tale in his memoirs as a sign of Polish backwardness (“The Polish
Pomorska Cavalry Brigade, in ignorance of the nature of our tanks, had
charged them with swords and lances…”) But Polish cavalry would hardly
be surprised by the capabilities of tanks: each cavalry brigade had an
armored troop attached to it, and the Polish army in 1939 contained the
not-inconsiderable number of 600 tanks. Cavalry charging tanks. A lot of people have bought this one for years.
It makes me wonder what other “facts” about the war we still need to
call into question."
Because I am a poet and I come from the ranks of the un-poets I am
fighting an uphill battle here. Poetry was ruined for me from a very
early age. I did like nursery rhymes my mother read to me as a young
child, but these were later dismissed in school as poetry for younger
children and they were not used to teach us how poetry can work. Then
we had Dr. Seuss who was also dismissed by most as some eccentric
fellow writing silly stuff for young kids. The Doctor actually wrote
some very brilliant poems that tend to stretch reality into something
unmanageable and therefore unsavory to most palettes.
Interesting note about Dr. Seuss from wiki:
Though Seuss made a point of not beginning the writing of his stories
with a moral in mind, stating that "kids can see a moral coming a mile
off", he was not against writing about issues; he said "there's an
inherent moral in any story" and remarked that he was "subversive as
hell".[6][7] "Yertle the Turtle" has variously been described as
"autocratic rule overturned",[8] "a reaction against the fascism of
World War II",[9] and "subversive of authoritarian rule".[10]
The last lines of "Yertle the Turtle" read: "And turtles, of course ...
all the turtles are free / As turtles, and maybe, all creatures should
be."[1] When questioned about why he wrote "maybe" rather than
"surely", Seuss replied that he didn't want to sound "didactic or like
a preacher on a platform", and that he wanted the reader "to say
'surely' in their minds instead of my having to say it."[7]
Dr. Seuss links
- Yertle the Turtle and Other Stories - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All about the wonderful Seuss book YERTLE THE TURTLE - Dr. Seuss - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Biography and bibliography of Sr. Seuss
YERTLE THE TURTLE by Dr. Seuss
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Important poetry is needed, especially in the time we are living in now. Whether one speaks to the unconscious in all of us from the unconscious, or simply, but strongly, says what has happened that we all know consciously is the truth as in 9/11, words matter. The poem MEWL HOUSE IN SEPTEMBER was written to honor those slain in the attack on the USA that fateful day. It records the truth, just as Jack Gilbert recorded the truth of the Poles riding out against the German tanks on horses, with sabers so many years ago.
MEWL HOUSE IN SEPTEMBER by M Sarki
Others, Other Than Myself, Have Written Much About Hating Poetry
- I Hate Poetry : Eileen Myles : Harriet the Blog : The Poetry Foundation
Im wondering why we hate poetry. I dont mean people who dont write it. I mean people who do. I hate poetry magazines by and large. You get two copies
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I have stated several times here on HP that I hate poetry. I can't explain it yet, I don't know why. I dabble in it, and don't know why. Some of it I love, most of it I hate, and you seem to know why that is too. Poetry just is, take it or leave it as it is not for all but then it is all. What the hell am I talking about anyway? Good hub my man. CC Burns forever!
Is poetry monologue..? Or is it narrative without purpose..? A blending of human expressions captured on paper, and, when read aloud, transcends reality and moves the reader to another place..?
I thought the following statement by Jack Gilbert was very cognizant to your protestation: " Poetry is almost the only way we can escape from the vicious constipation of moral relativism. Because poetry is the art of prejudice. If prejudice is the inability to discuss a conviction calmly, then poetry is prejudice...(Poetry) doesn't argue, it demonstrates...Poetry isn't fair...Poetry is one-sided, and being one-sided, it can say what truth is."
Indeed, Truth is relative, and damn the march to conformity, to a safe haven..
My son once asked me if I missed the old days, I told him no, but I do miss the clarity...One should not have to agonize over a poems message, if any exists at all...rather, poetry should be clear in its message, its transfer of thought from one human being to another...simply throwing out rhymes, or worse, tortured similes ( like " windmills of the mind ", etc. )may impress the uncritical reader, but is so much white noise to a thoughtful searcher for truth and beauty...
Sorry for going on for so long, but your Hub has hit one of my hot buttons. As a poet myself, although admittedly, not a very good one, I long for the clarity of a Keats, or more recently, a Walter Benton..
I really enjoyed your writing style and the Hub organization you have put together...I followed my Briny friend, Ralwus, here, and discovered a diamond in my own backyard...Welcome to HubPages from your newest fan...Larry
" Shock-Jock " poetry evokes pity for the poet, pity they have to use obscenity or bizarre behaviour to " really get through " to their targeted victim, the hapless reader, that is slapped in the face with what they consider " reality "...giveth me a break !!! Reading verbal defecation, or rants against the machine, inspire me to renew my acquaintance with Keats, Browning, et al... Larry
My comments were not directed to you specifically..having just discovered your HubPage I have yet to peruse your poetic efforts, which I am looking forward to so doing...Larry
My " most critical teacher " was Sister Kazamara..a tough little Russian nun that taught Latin and English Lit...I once wrote a poem about the Holy Ghost for extra credit...she refused to speak to me for weeks...although I did manage to squeeze out an A- for the year...some folks just don't appreciate talent...I'll check out " M Sarki " tonite when I have time to give your work serious thought...Larry
I'm so glad my friend Larry has stalked me to your hub. LOL I have a lot going right now, but I shall delve into you poetry before long. Maven is a master, I think.
A stumbled onto your blog and have enjoyed reading a few of your posts. We share a fondness for Jack Gilbert's work. I lived in Louisville KY for about 3 years (1990-1993).
My love for poetry remains pure as I said here:
Nonsense. So many caveats, so many "ifs and buts" and what a shame. We are never going to appreciate exactly the same poetry. A few poems will rise like cream to the top because they have the greatest universal appeal, but to deny others their right to enjoy a poem for its own sake is hateful, arrogant and snobbish. Poetry is powerful because it cloaks truth in beauty - not because it is perfect or because it is approved by the intelligentsia, or because its form and style are popular.















Kosmo Level 6 Commenter 2 years ago
For somebody who hates poetry, you sure write a lot about it! At any rate, let's say I'm indifferent about almost all poetry, because almost all of it is spam squared. However, that Gilbert guy, although no Poe, seems to have a little talent - or were you being sarcastic? Later!